If you read the historical bit below, you'll see exactly how we didn't fight this battle. And, to be fair, very rarely do re-runs of historical battles result in an exact re-hash of the real thing. Troops don't move the same way, rules prevent certain events being replicated and - as we found last night - little touches can have a major impact.
I'm warming to the Impetus rules (although I suspect John had a similar level of disgruntlement to the one I had last week, if his furrowed brow was anything to go by). We certainly played it where - as much as possible - troops moved together and no flanks were exposed. This led to very cautious movements by myself and John (the Macedonians) which certainly didn't reflect the action I think Russ (and history) expected. Which is where rules and history collide. It would have been nice to have fun charges up both flanks - but that also meant disrupted markers, exposed flanks and isolated units : in other words, a quick defeat. So we played it cautiously.
It was hilarious to see Mark throw the worst sequence of activation dice ever (eight '1's, two '2's one '3' and one '4'). They also managed to throw double 1 - twice - which would have taken Porus down to 'Poor' had it not been for the Destiny rolls.
Noting that the Indians opted to keep Porus off the table (and so his 30cm command radius extended from the back of the table) this meant that the Indians stayed back as much as possible and only moved once per turn (to prevent them going Disrupted). As a consequence we had to march towards them. Our cunning plan was to move sideways as well (as the Indians were mainly category C troops - meaning they were hard to control and move). So we could move away from their chariots, cavalry and bow and leave half the Indian army facing no-one.
A good idea, but given the space needed to cross and the time limit, it didn't go to plan. It means our pike blocks never got near to getting into the action.
We did send out light horse archers up the right (as Alexander did) but the 'little touch' mentioned above occurred. Russ had armed the Indian elephants with bows - and as such each one was shooting with 6 dice (or more if anything got within 5cm). The light horse therefore found themselves peppered with elephant shooting (with cries of "WTF!" and worse from our side) and pretty soon died to a man.
As a consequence, any stirring dash up the right by Alexander was cancelled forthwith. As the horses would be disrupted by attacking elephants anyway and the elephants could shoot at troops coming in and they have 6VBU and they have an Impetus of 7, they were instantly transformed into little islands of death. Especially as the Indians combined them and we faced pairs of elephants wandering towards us (so attacking them meant facing an additional 3 dice in support). Now to be fair to Russ, he held his hand up and stated that he may have got the shooty bit wrong (and any Impetus players out there can tell us if that is the case). But if not it makes the pachyderm the most desirable element for any army.
So while Russ was insisting that we weren't using the Companians etc. correctly (i.e. smashing into the Indian cavalry) our counter was that if we did, the Indian elephant nearby could a) shoot and b)charge at anything in range. So if we charged the Indian cavalry, the elephants in turn would go straight into the Macedonian flank with tons of dice and so murder them. So the history book was thrown away and we tried to find a way to combat the elephants.
Part of the problem is that we're only just getting a feel for the rules (it was Mark and John's first go) and we didn't really have a handle on what is good against what. Belatedly we were told that our skirmishers were good against elephants and we did have a combat where we had 11 shots in at one of them (and missed the lot!) but the combination of 6 shooty dice and 7 Impetus soon changed our minds. Once our light foot missed, the elephants shot and trampled them all to death in one turn.
Now Russ is going to look at the rules to see if the Elephants do get a shooty option. We all thought that the elephants' power is barging through troops so their Impetus makes sense. But shooting out more arrows than a Bow unit as well didn't seem to be right (or fair!). Not only that, but if (as we surmised) the only counter is Light Foot, then all the Indians need to do is line up Bow / Swordsmen alongside the grey tanks and any skirmishers will be summarily dispatched.
The battle had a little sideshow - where two units of hoplites and one unit of Cretan archers were facing two lots of Indian javelinmen across the river. "Easy" you say. No. Impetus requires that each unit crossing a river must roll an even number to get across. Inevitably we got one unit of hoplites across - and nothing else. These got javelined to death and - when they tried to charge - got disrupted. The archers made it across eventually - but not the general. When the Indians turned their chariots around to take them on, the idea was to get back across the river - but only the archers managed it. The hoplites got killed to a man - simply because they couldn't get back over or get support. Lesson learned - don't try to cross rivers where the enemy are.
Our hypaspists - supposedly rock hard - got shot by the elephants. Forced to charge or die, they charged. And died.
We did manage to line up the Companian cavalry (who historically rode around the rough ground and hit the Indians in the flank). No such heroics from ours as we waddled up the near side. But we did get within charging distance - then time ran out.
So the inevitable round up was focused on the big grey beasts. Being on the receiving end we were a tad mystified and miffed and Russ promised to find the answer.
So - good fun and we're getting better with the rules. But we needs to know! Are they that tough? Really?
UPDATE - forum replies to Russ' Elephant query
I'm warming to the Impetus rules (although I suspect John had a similar level of disgruntlement to the one I had last week, if his furrowed brow was anything to go by). We certainly played it where - as much as possible - troops moved together and no flanks were exposed. This led to very cautious movements by myself and John (the Macedonians) which certainly didn't reflect the action I think Russ (and history) expected. Which is where rules and history collide. It would have been nice to have fun charges up both flanks - but that also meant disrupted markers, exposed flanks and isolated units : in other words, a quick defeat. So we played it cautiously.
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| Mark's back - and immediately takes control. |
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| Russ does all the hard work as Ian looks on - having turned up a mere 4 hours after everyone else. |
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| Porus - minus his huge turban - gets comfy knowing he has unstoppable elephants. |
It was hilarious to see Mark throw the worst sequence of activation dice ever (eight '1's, two '2's one '3' and one '4'). They also managed to throw double 1 - twice - which would have taken Porus down to 'Poor' had it not been for the Destiny rolls.
Noting that the Indians opted to keep Porus off the table (and so his 30cm command radius extended from the back of the table) this meant that the Indians stayed back as much as possible and only moved once per turn (to prevent them going Disrupted). As a consequence we had to march towards them. Our cunning plan was to move sideways as well (as the Indians were mainly category C troops - meaning they were hard to control and move). So we could move away from their chariots, cavalry and bow and leave half the Indian army facing no-one.
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| We've got elephants. Do your worst! |
A good idea, but given the space needed to cross and the time limit, it didn't go to plan. It means our pike blocks never got near to getting into the action.
 |
| More top rolling from Mark |
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| We slide to the left |
We did send out light horse archers up the right (as Alexander did) but the 'little touch' mentioned above occurred. Russ had armed the Indian elephants with bows - and as such each one was shooting with 6 dice (or more if anything got within 5cm). The light horse therefore found themselves peppered with elephant shooting (with cries of "WTF!" and worse from our side) and pretty soon died to a man.
As a consequence, any stirring dash up the right by Alexander was cancelled forthwith. As the horses would be disrupted by attacking elephants anyway and the elephants could shoot at troops coming in and they have 6VBU and they have an Impetus of 7, they were instantly transformed into little islands of death. Especially as the Indians combined them and we faced pairs of elephants wandering towards us (so attacking them meant facing an additional 3 dice in support). Now to be fair to Russ, he held his hand up and stated that he may have got the shooty bit wrong (and any Impetus players out there can tell us if that is the case). But if not it makes the pachyderm the most desirable element for any army.
 |
| Our first contact with the elephants - ouch! |
So while Russ was insisting that we weren't using the Companians etc. correctly (i.e. smashing into the Indian cavalry) our counter was that if we did, the Indian elephant nearby could a) shoot and b)charge at anything in range. So if we charged the Indian cavalry, the elephants in turn would go straight into the Macedonian flank with tons of dice and so murder them. So the history book was thrown away and we tried to find a way to combat the elephants.
Part of the problem is that we're only just getting a feel for the rules (it was Mark and John's first go) and we didn't really have a handle on what is good against what. Belatedly we were told that our skirmishers were good against elephants and we did have a combat where we had 11 shots in at one of them (and missed the lot!) but the combination of 6 shooty dice and 7 Impetus soon changed our minds. Once our light foot missed, the elephants shot and trampled them all to death in one turn.
 |
| The Macedonians run away from the killer pachyderm |
Now Russ is going to look at the rules to see if the Elephants do get a shooty option. We all thought that the elephants' power is barging through troops so their Impetus makes sense. But shooting out more arrows than a Bow unit as well didn't seem to be right (or fair!). Not only that, but if (as we surmised) the only counter is Light Foot, then all the Indians need to do is line up Bow / Swordsmen alongside the grey tanks and any skirmishers will be summarily dispatched.
 |
| The side show. Don't cross rivers unless you want to die. |
Our hypaspists - supposedly rock hard - got shot by the elephants. Forced to charge or die, they charged. And died.
 |
| Another elephant - another Macedonian disaster |
We did manage to line up the Companian cavalry (who historically rode around the rough ground and hit the Indians in the flank). No such heroics from ours as we waddled up the near side. But we did get within charging distance - then time ran out.
So the inevitable round up was focused on the big grey beasts. Being on the receiving end we were a tad mystified and miffed and Russ promised to find the answer.
So - good fun and we're getting better with the rules. But we needs to know! Are they that tough? Really?
UPDATE - forum replies to Russ' Elephant query
Hi Russ - yes, escorted elephants are powerful. You are about right in the way that you played them, as melee troops with missile capability, one major difference though.
Various weapons (not short bow
) are defined in the firing table in the main rules (very bottom of the list if I remember correctly), which I think gives them a +1 at point blank, no modifiers at short range and no shooting at long or extreme range.
Yes giving them shooting and melee options makes elephants formidable, but compared to, say a medium cavalry unit with VBU 5 and Impetus 2 armed with Comp Bow B, which will get an additional 2 or 4 "missile" dice at point blank range plus 7 dice in melee for a similar cost - I wouldn't say they were overpowered - especially as elephants are "C" class discipline, slower, cannot evade and cannot disperse skirmishers.......
Elephants do have a high Impetus value (similar to war chariots) but they are difficult to keep "fresh" for a charge
I don't think many of us would like to face 6 units of the big grey blighters though!
Cheers
Dax
Various weapons (not short bow
Yes giving them shooting and melee options makes elephants formidable, but compared to, say a medium cavalry unit with VBU 5 and Impetus 2 armed with Comp Bow B, which will get an additional 2 or 4 "missile" dice at point blank range plus 7 dice in melee for a similar cost - I wouldn't say they were overpowered - especially as elephants are "C" class discipline, slower, cannot evade and cannot disperse skirmishers.......
Elephants do have a high Impetus value (similar to war chariots) but they are difficult to keep "fresh" for a charge
I don't think many of us would like to face 6 units of the big grey blighters though!
Cheers
Dax
Elephants with escort have various weapons and not (only) bows.
It may seem that Indian elephants are overpowered but not more than hellenistic phalanxes with their Lareg Units.
At the end these armies are well balanced.
It may seem that Indian elephants are overpowered but not more than hellenistic phalanxes with their Lareg Units.
At the end these armies are well balanced.
From Lorenzo (the chap who wrote the rules!)
Hi Russ,
Various Weapons is a category in itself, the last one in the Firing Table. You can depict your models/figures with any combination of bows or javelins/ darts etc. but they shoot as "Various weapons". This means they only have an effective range of 15U (as per the firing table). Even as "various weapons" a VBU of 6 is still scary! The trick for opponents is to hit them with longer range shooting or to close in quickly and get the first shot. Once the elephants become disordered they lose a dice, if they move they lose another, if shooting at S they lose yet another. So their 6 dice can be brought down to 3 quite easily, still nasty but not so bad. They really struggle against S who choose to evade when shot at (another dice lost) and then return for their own shot.
Welcome to Impetus!
TD
Various Weapons is a category in itself, the last one in the Firing Table. You can depict your models/figures with any combination of bows or javelins/ darts etc. but they shoot as "Various weapons". This means they only have an effective range of 15U (as per the firing table). Even as "various weapons" a VBU of 6 is still scary! The trick for opponents is to hit them with longer range shooting or to close in quickly and get the first shot. Once the elephants become disordered they lose a dice, if they move they lose another, if shooting at S they lose yet another. So their 6 dice can be brought down to 3 quite easily, still nasty but not so bad. They really struggle against S who choose to evade when shot at (another dice lost) and then return for their own shot.
Welcome to Impetus!
TD
Bottom line here is that what I did wrong was to use the firing chart for the short bow which really did make the elephants silly. At point blank they got 3/5 dice short range up to 15cm 0/1 and long -2/-1.
What the chaps have pointed out above means is that there is a various weapons section at the bottom of the firing table. This makes the elephants only able to fire at 15cm max and with no extra dice, so it would just be 6 dice if the elephant was fresh. at point blank they get 1 dice bonus. That's it, anything over 15cm can't be fired at.
This balances it out because it allows skirmish or bow armed troops to fire at the elephants at a longer range allowing for possible damage to soften them up.
Yes you may still feel that the elephants are a super unit but as Lorenzo points out not as tough as a phalanx in deep formation (+3 dice V mounted on top of VBU & Impetus!)
The trick here is to use light troops against the elephants then use the Phalanx to deliver the killer blow, in theory of course..........
If you can reduce the elephants VBU it will make all the difference, plus they do not like receiving missile fire, it can cause panic and retreat.
All important stuff to remember for the replay next Thursday!
Hope this settles the nerves of the Macedonians!
The Hypaspists are Javelin armed which means they can throw at 15cm too with no Penalty against the Elephants, so as they are light foot they do get a free move (8cm) then get to throw with no penalty. They have VBU of 6 which is the same as the elephants plus there are two units of them = 12 dice to throw...... swings it round now eh?
Cheers
So there you go!
Historical Bit
The Battle of the Hydaspes River was fought by Alexander the Great in 326 BC against King Porus of the Hindu Paurava kingdom on the banks of the Hydaspes River (Jhelum River) in the Punjab near Bhera in what is now modern-day Pakistan. The battle resulted in a complete Macedonian victory and the annexation of the Punjab, which lay beyond the confines of the defeated Persian empire, into the Alexandrian Empire.
When Porus reached the point where Alexander's army was arrayed, he deployed his forces and commenced the attack. The Indians were poised with cavalry on both flanks, their center comprising infantry with elephants towering among or before them in equal intervals. The elephants caused much harm to the Macedonian phalanx, but were eventually repulsed by the dense pikes of the phallangitai, wreaking much havoc upon their own lines.
Alexander started the battle by sending horse archers to shower the Indian left cavalry wing. Then, he led the charge against the weakened Indian wing. The rest of the Indian cavalry galloped to their hard pressed kinsmen but at this moment, Coenus's cavalry contingent appeared on the Indian rear. The Indians tried to form a double phalanx, but the necessary complicated maneuvers brought even more confusion into their ranks making it easier for the Macedonian horse to conquer. The remaining Indian cavalry fled among the elephants for protection, but the beasts were already out of control and would soon retreat exhausted from the field, leaving the rest of Porus's army encircled by the Macedonian horse and phalanx. At this time, the phallangitai locked their shields and advanced upon the confused enemy. Porus, after putting up a brave fight, surrendered and the battle was finally over. According to Justin, during the battle, Porus challenged Alexander, who charged him on horseback. Alexander fell off his horse in the ensuing duel, his bodyguards carrying him off and capturing Porus.
According to Arrian, Macedonian losses amounted to 310. However the military historian J.F.C. Fuller sees as "more realistic" the figure given by Diodorus of about 1,000, a large number for a victor, yet not improbable, considering the partial success of the Indian war elephants. Indian losses amounted to 23,000 according to Arrian, 12,000 dead and over 9,000 men captured according to Diodorus. The last two numbers are remarkably close, if it is assumed that Arrian added any prisoners to the total Indian casualties. Historian Peter Green supports that Macedonian casualties might have mounted to 4.000 men, mainly phallangites, but his claims are not supported by the sources.